Atlas of “True” Names

Quite educational. Anthropological study worthwhile, enlightening; offers perspective for our own origins.

This is good… :smile: The word “chocolate” entered the English language from Spanish.[3] How the word came into Spanish is less certain, and there are multiple competing explanations. Perhaps the most cited explanation is that “chocolate” comes from Nahuatl, the language of the Aztecs, from the word “chocolatl”, which many sources derived from the Nahuatl word “xocolatl” made up from the words “xococ” meaning sour or bitter, and “atl” meaning water or drink.[3] However, as William Bright noted[4] the word “chocolatl” doesn’t occur in central Mexican colonial sources making this an unlikely derivation. Santamaria[5] gives a derivation from the Yucatec Maya word “chokol” meaning hot, and the Nahuatl “atl” meaning water. More recently Dakin and Wichmann derive it from another Nahuatl term, “chicolatl” from Eastern Nahuatl meaning “beaten drink”.[6] They derive this term from the word for the frothing stick, “chicoli”.

History…. my place of information…Marina is a dock????

I once saw an old French map of Europe on which all the countries had been given [facetious] names in French.
France – Pays des buveurs de vin. – Country of wine drinkers.
Belgium – Pays des buveurs de biere. – Country of beer drinkers.
Germany – Pays des mangeurs de choucroute. – Country of eaters of sauerkraut.
Italy – Pays des mangeurs de pattes – Country of pasta eaters.
Spain – Pays des mangeurs de piments – Country of Red Pepper eaters.
Holland – Pays des mangeurs de fromage. – Country of Cheese eaters.
England РPays des buveurs de Th̩. РCountry of tea drinkers.
Scotland – Pays des buveurs de Whisky. – etc.

I love Marina the teacher, from—”HotForWords”…I live near the bay of Green Bay, the natives called this area “stinky water” because of green various ‘aquatic’ plants growing…God bless the brave French

my blood is of…”Under the Oaks” – Potsdam…now back to arithym-ictic :lol: and amber :smile:

:lol:

I thought it odd that some of the European names sounded more Native American than the names on the North American continent. Was this because of the disregard of the native people? And I thought it amusing that Oakland was always Oakland. Cool maps, I always save the pullouts from National Geographic.

I lost all interest when I read about them not distinguishing between false etymologies and true ones. It is very good that you have put quotes around true. Their web-site does not have the quotes and I consider that evil.

Dear Marina,
What a fascinating find! When the Spanish explored California, they also chose names that described places. An indian village where they made wooden boats was called Carpenteria. Other places were called “Punte Lobos” (Wolf Point) and “Los Gatos” (The cats). The Spanish found a town settled by Chinese people and called it “Chino.”
The Chinese who came here called California “Gum San” (Gold Mountain) for the metal found here. The Chinese called America “Mei Kuo” (Beautiful Country) because it was the most beautiful country on earth.
(Now that you live here, California still is the most beautiful.) :razz:
Seesixcm6

Marina,

National Geographic Magazine has an interesting article this month, December 2009, titled As The Word Turns. It lists 200 of the world’s oldest words. The source study is by Mark Pagel at the University of Reading, which makes sense (words ~ reading). :lol:

It’s still there she hasn’t lost it. :razz: :lol:

Think I remember ‘cannibal’ coming from a miscommunication.

While living in Mexico I would translate the names of town into English so I’d have an easier time remembering them.

The only time it was a problem was with the indigenous people’s language, the one with the x’s & z’s…

Cayucos after the canoes the Chumash used.

:cool: The names on this map remind me of a community that I live close to: The Rock, Ga. This also reminds me of an interesting community in Florida called Two Egg. :smile:

I kneeded a cup for water :?: :???: :?: :razz:

The Indo-European languages are most of those originally found across Europe, the Middle-East and the Indian subcontinent. Examples include: Celtic, Roman, Greek, Germanic, Nordic (with the exception of Finnish), Slavic, Armenian, Iranian, Afghan, Gujarati, Hindi, Bengali, Napali and Kashmiri, and of course modern-day derivations such as English and Spanish.

Researchers call words that persist relatively untouched across the ages ‘cognates,’ which means that the words have a systematic sound correspondence that proves their common ancestry. For example, cognates meaning “water” exist in English (water), German (wasser), Swedish (vaten) and Gothic (wato) – read them again and you can discern the ‘aht’ sound common to all. The most resilient cognates, the numerals, have not changed significantly in their entire history.

…thanks: pig-in-a-poke, for the lead link

:smile:

Great Spirit bless us all >>>>>>>>+<<<<<<<<

Well I have to say, sleepy as I am, that I kinda agree with you Marina. I know my name and nature lends itself to the truth anyway, but the fact of the matter is genuine etymology is just as fascinating as the false ones anyway. So why not just keep thing clean and simple.

That being said some of the place names are really rather funny. None more so than rolling around the South Downs of England methinks.

Night night Marina… talk when we can talk :)

Marina asks: “What do you think about their approach?”

Misuse of the word “True”! They are peddling some thing off as the TRUTH, in which it’s proven it’s not 100% true. They are just snake oil salesmen in my eyes.
Maybe it’s just a fun thing to read. That’s ok but there must be truth in advertising. If they where in the US, the FTC could shut them down.

(btw, like that you asked the question. It clued me in that something was amiss.)

“There is a sucker born every minute!”
Common phrased used among sales people when someone buys into a product that is known to be snake oil.

One would think in this day and age people would not be so easily sucked into things such as this. I guess that’s why we of government entities like the FTC to intervene.

Funny thing is this very post is heavily copied story! It showed up last year about this time. Oh this story showed up last year in December? Hummmmm… Just in time for the holiday shopping season.

Here’s just a few of many links very similar to Marina’s post:

http://shiftnpuzzle.blogspot.com/2008/12/atlas-of-true-names.html
http://strangemaps.wordpress.com/?s=Silke
http://celticagent.blogspot.com/2009/11/334-atlas-of-true-names-strange-maps.html

For a critical discussion of the book
http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=861

One more thing, Skippers never use maps. Ever! Reason why is maps can’t be trusted. We use charts for they are nearly 99% accurate. Even then, we correct them monthly and treat them as historical documents. We rely on our electrical navigation equipment and our Mark II eyeball systems.

i wanna be a Scott : )

Marina wrote:-

I never thought of the Brits as the Tattooed ones …

and I too have not been able to establish that we Brits were any more famous for tattooing than other tribes from the continent.
What may have given rise to this reputation is the habit of the Brits of adorning their bodies with woad, a blue dye produced from boiling the flowering plant Isatis tinctoria.
This practise has been immortalised in the following song, sung to the tune of “The March of the Men of Harlech” (or for Evan “Rhyfelgyrch GwÅ·r Harlech”)

What’s the use of wearing braces?
Spats and hats and boots with laces?
Vests and pants you buy in places
Down on Brompton Road?

What’s the use of shirts of cotton?
Studs that always get forgotten?
These affairs are simply rotten,
Better far is woad.

Woad’s the stuff to show men.
Woad to scare your foemen.
Boil it to a brilliant hue
And rub it on your back and your abdomen.

Ancient Briton ne’er did hit on
Anything as good as woad to fit on
Neck or knees or where you sit on.
Tailors you be blowed!!

2.
Romans came across the channel
All dressed up in tin and flannel
Half a pint of woad per man’ll
Clothe us more than these.

Saxons you can waste your stitches
Building beds for bugs in britches
We have woad to clothe us which is
Not a nest for fleas

Romans keep your armours.
Saxons your pyjamas.
Hairy coats were made for goats,
Gorillas, yaks, retriever dogs and llamas.

March on Snowdon with your woad on,
Never mind if you get rained or snowed on
Never want a button sewed on,
If you stick to Woad.

This has been fun, Marina. Thanks for putting it up.

Hi Bob,

Your post of “Woad” brought back some great memories, in particular of a couple of my fellow Cymry painting themselves blue and singing this song at a noson lawen.

[Britain] is said to derive from Prydyn, the Welsh name for the Picts, famous for their custom of painting themselves blue with woad (long before William Wallace or Mel Gibson) :lol:

Wales is labeled “Land of Strangers” the translation of “Wales” from old Anglo-Saxon. (It is mis-spelled on one map as “Land of Stangers.) The Welsh name for Wales is Cymru, “Land of Fellow Countrymen” — the same name that appears as the translation of “Cumbria” a little ways to the north. Cymru, Cumbria, and Cornwall were all part of the land of the Combrogos, British Celts (including King Arthur) who resisted the Anglo-Saxon invasions. Had they succeeded, Americans would quite likely all be speaking Welsh instead of English. :cool:

Michoacán supposedly means “Land of Lakes,” as does Michigan. :cool:

I don’t know if I would use the term “false etymology.” Perhaps I would call them “folk” etymology. I encounter the same type of thing in historical research, folk legends, diverse oral histories, etc. These alternative histories often carry more influence than “true” history. When citing any historical source, I try to be honest with my knowledge of the history of the source, when applicable. Of course, this can get to be a circular argument, so it is best to try to keep it simple – maybe put additional info in a footnote or something. Perhaps, this etymological book could serve dual purposes by listing brief explanations at the bottom of the page for certain, “questionable” origins.

Thank you bsomebody for stating an honest and succinct way of looking at the issue. In fact, you bring up an excellent point that I had been meaning to elaborate on and that is “folk etymologies” carrying more influences.

Many of these stories that we might refer to as “folk tales” or speculation may actually have more truth. To add to your comments, what many people forget is the timeline and pockets of time in context. That is, throughout history, there have been political expediencies created via the burning of books which has all but erased some important history and language origins.

For example, Marina, in most of her videos goes back maybe one or two iterations of changes. Usually, that ends up being around the 1600s or later, but there were many etymological changes prior to that, which in most cases is difficult to track due to lack of documentation, political propaganda and other disinformation. In fact, disinformation by well meaning people has led to some false etymologies. See my comments on the “Wop” video lesson page for an example.

Another problem that I have observed is the alienation of a large group of people. If you do any lengthy look into the etymology of the word “school”, you’ll know what I mean.

Another item that many people forget and don’t want to know about is that sometimes there are two streams of origins occurring at a similar time, but a different locale. Depending on what side of the war the etymology was on, the winners of the wars get to write the history.

I grew up as a kid writing fluently in Fraktur, which is all but wiped out. Would you believe that even my own former countrymen older than me are totally ignorant of my experiences due to what happened. People tell me I’m crazy and it never happened, but when I show them a physical book to demonstrate my point, their jaws drop to the ground. This shows you the ignorance and disinformation of the same group of people separated by a just a few hundred miles.

I guess in the end, it’s all about perceptions and expediency and if it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, it’s gotta be a duck, unless it is a platypus. :smile:

I don’t know about the British being the Tattooed ones.
But one the first things I learnt at school, in my day was that the ancient Britons coloured themselves with a Blue dye called ‘Woad’.

I thought the Tattooed ones were a couple of Russian school girl lesbians. :lol:

DOH! I should have read the comments below.
Woad extensively covered by Bob & Evan.
Or are Bob & Evan extensively covered in Woad.

SI body paint of atlas: http://bit.ly/4MoE46

Became curious about which part of the world covered which part of the body, but it is too much work to figure out.

Equilibrium Maps

:cool: The names on this map remind me of a community that I live close to: The Rock, Ga. This also reminds me of an interesting community in Florida called Two Egg. :smile:

thanks you very much for you sharing……………
http://poptropicagamess.blogspot.com/

When the Romans called Italy, the Land of Calves, they didn’t eat spaghetti at that time. They just found…calves! Cool…